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  #1  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:23 AM
guyd2 guyd2 is offline
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Default Numerology to Modular : Dazed & Confused

Let me explain the situation first (as an excuse, I guess):

I need to give a public demo with my new modular within a week. I'd love to use Numerology to drive it. Really basic stuff: 8 channels of CV's and Gates out, mostly coming from Mononotes (for now). That's it.

I prefer not to use other software (Silent Way, Logic, etc), but if necessary, I'll manage. Maybe.

The problem is that I don't know enough about anything except my modular. Can't even control my Motu UtraLight Mk3 properly, I have to admit (with shame )...
My excuse is that I simply didn't have the time yet to study everything. I will later, but I just don't have time to spare right now -- the audience is coming for the modular, and that's where my focus ought to go.

Hardware is set up like this: a 8-channel snake with TRS on one side - going to the Analog Inputs of the Motu, and 16 TR/TS jacks to a breakout box. This then should go to the modular, preferably as a row of CV1-Gate1--CV2-Gate2, etc...

What would be the easiest way to patch this up in Numerology ?

PS. I managed to get 1 Gate and 1 CV out through Silent Way's Voice (DC), but things don't work anymore for more channels... and then I get utterly confused.


Any guiding hand would be highly appreciated !

cheers,
_g
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:51 AM
baltimoroder baltimoroder is offline
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You can totally do this. Easiest way to start is...

- Create a stack for a single voice. It can be as simple as MonoNote -> Silent Way Voice Controller* -> Audio Out. In the routing tab, make sure clock is routed to MonoNote, MonoNote MIDI is routed to Silent Way. Silent Way output is routed to Audio Out.

*You can use Num CV->Audio but won't get the advantages of Silent Way's calibration routines.

- Select Audio Outs corresponding to MOTU physical out that goes to the oscillator & EG. (remember Main is 1-2, 3-4 is Physical 1-2, etc.) Main outputs ~ 9V, Physical outs ~7V. Headphones ~11V.

- To calibrate, run the oscillator's signal (preferably a sine) back into an input on the MOTU and route that audio into the corresponding oscillator's Silent Way plugin. Hit calibrate. You should get a left-to-right, up-to-down diagonal line while you hear your oscillator track from sub-audible to super-high. The jagged lines at the top and bottom are where your interface tops out.

- Test is out. Do you get 7+ octaves of linear tracking? If not, something went wrong.

- Do this for each oscillator/stack. Save time by exporting the original stack to the library and reimporting it into a new stack, changing the output pairs, and calibrating. Save the calibration files for later.
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  #3  
Old 01-18-2011, 11:02 AM
jim jim is offline
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A few more tips:

- Use only the "TS" ends of the jacks from the snakes. Just tie up the "TR"s and leave them aside.

- MOTU often sets up their interfaces with the mic inputs as the first two listed in the audio driver, followed by the analog inputs. Ditto for the outputs, with the main outs as 1-2. What this means in Numerology is that outputs 1-2 are typically the main outs, outputs 3-4 (from Numerology) map to analog outs 1-2 on the MOTU, etc. Looking at the ports on the Ultralite, my guess is that analog inputs will number 'naturally' while the analog outputs are offset by 2.

- On the input side of things -- i.e. routing audio from the modular back to Numerology, I tend to only use every other input -- Analog input 1 comes from modular voice 1, input 2 is left empty, input 3 is from modular voice 3, etc. That way each pair of inputs & outputs is consistent. Of course, if you can't spare the unused inputs, then you'll need to compress them. Use the MonoExtraction module at the top of each stack in Numerology to make sure that each stack only 'listens' to the correct input.

- Even if you prefer to have the final routing for your modular's audio go somewhere besides Numerology, I recommend you do route audio through the stack while setting up, as it makes it easier to test that your connections are correct. And, of course, Silent Way has to have an audio input to calibrate.

Determine how the MOTU's physical I/O maps to what Numerology displays, then setup a single stack w/ Silent Way. Follow the setup described in the SW tutorial video (http://www.five12.com/t-silentway.html).

Then export that stack, re-import it (to create a 2nd stack), and increment all inputs and outputs by 2 (1-2 goes to 3-4, 3-4 goes to 5-6) etc. If that works then keep going. If not, then email me screenshots of both the front and back of both stacks (so I can see the actual I/O settings) and the project itself (so I can check for any routing issues).

Cheers,
Jim
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  #4  
Old 01-18-2011, 12:14 PM
guyd2 guyd2 is offline
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Thanks, Jim and Baltimoroder.

What you describe is more or less what I tried, though it gives me a bit more insight about what's actually happening.

As for the VCO calibration, I really don't care too much about that. I tried it, and it worked (with only 2 VCO's, but I have a *whole* lot more, so the Motu will come short anyway). I don't even use oscillators as my main sound source most of the time...

The snakes, I did half a year ago (and then was cought up in soldering). They're TRS's going to both TS and TR's, the TR's carrying the inverted signal. They all go to a breakout box, from where I patch to the modulars.


Jim, thanks for explaining the Motu a bit more. That darned thing still confuses the heck out of me.
I'm using the dedicated Mains Outs to drive the speakers; synth audio is going to Analog Inputs 2 & 3 (why the h*@! are they putting outputs next to inputs, I wonder!?).
All of the 8 analog outs go to the breakout box, hoping to get 4 CV's and 4 gates.

Jim, what you describe for setting up the stacks, is more or less what I did (because, indeed, it makes a lot of sense).
However, there's one major difference: I've put both Mononotes and SW instances (only two, for testing) in the same Stack, and routed Gate outs from the Mononotes to SW's Voice (DC) gate inputs.

And then it all went haywire... ...and I gave up.

What confuses me also, is all the different "CV Out" on the Mononote, and the "CV Bus" options on the Stack's output. I don't understand what does what and what goes where ?

Printed out Numerology's manual today, so now I'm looking at 1 inch of paper, and think "hmmm, that ain't gonna happen before next Tuesday."


More tomorrow.

cheers !
_g
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  #5  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:07 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
Jim, what you describe for setting up the stacks, is more or less what I did (because, indeed, it makes a lot of sense).
However, there's one major difference: I've put both Mononotes and SW instances (only two, for testing) in the same Stack, and routed Gate outs from the Mononotes to SW's Voice (DC) gate inputs.
I definitely recommend keeping each setup in a different stack. In addition to making stack presets more useful (a separate set for each MonoNote), it will make connections simpler to setup (and debug).

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
What confuses me also, is all the different "CV Out" on the Mononote, and the "CV Bus" options on the Stack's output. I don't understand what does what and what goes where ?
For a straight-up MonoNote to SilentWay to audio Pitch CV/Gate CV, don't use any CV connections, just route MIDI from the MonoNote to SilentWay, it will do to the conversion. The CV Outs on the MonoNote are strictly for the 3 CV "sub sequences". See the ref manual chapter on the MonoNote for a per-port breakdown of everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
Printed out Numerology's manual today, so now I'm looking at 1 inch of paper, and think "hmmm, that ain't gonna happen before next Tuesday."
Most of the manual is composed of ref pages for the modules. To get up-to-date with MonoNote/SilentWay/Modular setups, just read through Chapters 2-5, perhaps 9 & 10 for an update on data types, and the reference page for the MonoNote. And the tutorial video, of course, but I'm sure you've already seen that.

Cheers,
Jim
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2011, 01:11 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
I'm using the dedicated Mains Outs to drive the speakers; synth audio is going to Analog Inputs 2 & 3 (why the h*@! are they putting outputs next to inputs, I wonder!?).
It is an unusual layout, but then they have a whole-lotta jacks on a pretty small box...

Anyway, be sure to use the MonoExtraction module (or appropriate cabling on the modular) to ensure that you don't accidentally send more than one oscillator at at time to SilentWay during calibration.

And yes, once you get it going, you're going to want a 2nd audio interface. I use 8 outputs for just two synth voices (2 oscillators each) and find even that a bit constraining...

Cheers,
Jim
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  #7  
Old 01-18-2011, 02:25 PM
baltimoroder baltimoroder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
Printed out Numerology's manual today, so now I'm looking at 1 inch of paper, and think "hmmm, that ain't gonna happen before next Tuesday."
It's really worth it to read the manual but if you just want to get started making noise, I posted a stack that you can use right away. It worked on my Eurorack but no disclaimers for your setup though.

http://five12.net/showthread.php?p=5598

cheers
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  #8  
Old 01-18-2011, 04:50 PM
guyd2 guyd2 is offline
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Wow, that is fantastic !
I've got it all up & running now.

Just need to quickly go through Numerology to find some ways to emulate the Evolve function for the CV & Gate sequencers... amongst other things.


This helped a lot.
Thanks for that, Baltimoroder !

_g
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  #9  
Old 01-18-2011, 05:41 PM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
Wow, that is fantastic !
I've got it all up & running now.
Excellent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
Just need to quickly go through Numerology to find some ways to emulate the Evolve function for the CV & Gate sequencers... amongst other things.
I don't know of anyway to get evolve happening w/ the CV and Gate seqs (other than implementing it, which I should), but you can treat the MonoNote as a CV or Gate seq -- use the Interval and Gate outputs. Of course, that makes it harder to use Silent Way (depending on your goals)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyd2 View Post
This helped a lot.
Thanks for that, Baltimoroder !
Indeed!

Cheers,
Jim
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2011, 09:56 PM
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jue jue is offline
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Default find some ways to emulate the Evolve function for the CV & Gate sequencers

Hello,

please try this:

Discrete Sequencing with MonoNotes and Evolve modulation

Even with MonoNotes its possible to do Discrete Sequencing, just take what you need from one MonoNote and take another and another....

Thats what Numerology makes so great!

best
jue

PS: This project uses the Apple Synth for audio it is not ready for CV-Use.
It just to shows the possibilities.
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