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  #1  
Old 09-30-2011, 10:24 AM
secmast secmast is offline
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Default MTC and Midi clock at the same time

In my setup two of my unit are not running on the same sync when in remote mode.
Korg M3 is running only on Midi clock
Tascam 2488neo is running only on MTC

Now I tried to run the normal clock to M3 using Midi clock and a groove clock to the Tascam using MTC. I trigger the groove clock using IAC bus which is working like a charm.
But no MTC at the output when I have midi clock running well.

I believe this is a limitation on Numerology to generate only one type !

Is anybody have an idea to get this working in one way or the other ?

Thanks

Last edited by secmast; 09-30-2011 at 10:40 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2011, 02:28 PM
TwoToneshuzz TwoToneshuzz is offline
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Originally Posted by secmast View Post
In my setup two of my unit are not running on the same sync when in remote mode.
Korg M3 is running only on Midi clock
Tascam 2488neo is running only on MTC

Now I tried to run the normal clock to M3 using Midi clock and a groove clock to the Tascam using MTC. I trigger the groove clock using IAC bus which is working like a charm.
But no MTC at the output when I have midi clock running well.

I believe this is a limitation on Numerology to generate only one type !

Is anybody have an idea to get this working in one way or the other ?

Thanks

Hello!

If there is one place in the studio that is a special kind of hell it's got to be that place often found under the mixing board or behind tape machines, dusty, cramped and with poor light , such places where you have to deal with syncronization problems!

Have you tried sending MTC to to your Tascam from the main clock, and inserting a second Groove clock and send midi beat clock to your R3?

I have a external synth or two the Korg wavestation and the Waldorf blofeld. Neither of those needs any external clock input, through the IAC bus.. Midi beat clock gets sent from the sequencer automatically along with the note data.

It's usually tape machines or digital recorders that emulate tape machines that use MTC, which was orignally used to sync tape machines to film or sequencers.

Let's figure this out. I've used tapemachines and computers with smpte converters and such if it works it works if it's off. Then it take some detective work to figure it out. That Numerology should have limitations and problems in this respect I doubt very much..

We will get it sorted for sure! A thought are you using the M3 to playback recorded audio? Why does a synth need to be in remote mode.. Some clarity to the setup, before I delve further into the matter please..

Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 09-30-2011 at 02:37 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2011, 10:39 AM
jim jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secmast View Post
In my setup two of my unit are not running on the same sync when in remote mode.
Korg M3 is running only on Midi clock
Tascam 2488neo is running only on MTC

Now I tried to run the normal clock to M3 using Midi clock and a groove clock to the Tascam using MTC. I trigger the groove clock using IAC bus which is working like a charm.
But no MTC at the output when I have midi clock running well.

I believe this is a limitation on Numerology to generate only one type !

Is anybody have an idea to get this working in one way or the other ?

Thanks
Yes, that is a limitation in Numerology (or specifically in the CoreAudio library Numerology uses for sync) and the UI needs to be adjusted to make that more clear. The only recommendation I have at this time is to run a program that can generate both sync types at once, and then either run Numerology in ReWire mode, or via MIDI sync.

Cheers,
Jim
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Old 10-01-2011, 05:13 PM
secmast secmast is offline
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Originally Posted by TwoToneshuzz View Post
Hello!

If there is one place in the studio that is a special kind of hell it's got to be that place often found under the mixing board or behind tape machines, dusty, cramped and with poor light , such places where you have to deal with syncronization problems!

Have you tried sending MTC to to your Tascam from the main clock, and inserting a second Groove clock and send midi beat clock to your R3?

I have a external synth or two the Korg wavestation and the Waldorf blofeld. Neither of those needs any external clock input, through the IAC bus.. Midi beat clock gets sent from the sequencer automatically along with the note data.

It's usually tape machines or digital recorders that emulate tape machines that use MTC, which was orignally used to sync tape machines to film or sequencers.

Let's figure this out. I've used tapemachines and computers with smpte converters and such if it works it works if it's off. Then it take some detective work to figure it out. That Numerology should have limitations and problems in this respect I doubt very much..

We will get it sorted for sure! A thought are you using the M3 to playback recorded audio? Why does a synth need to be in remote mode.. Some clarity to the setup, before I delve further into the matter please..
Let's say Numerology is having a drum pattern notes send to the M3 which is recorded by the Tascam. The right "idea" will that the center of the synchronization is Numerology as it send the clock to both.

If I use the Tascam clock (over midi cable to USB using cakewalk) it first come to Numerology, then Numerology send the very same clock to the M3 along the notes. Then the M3 is "sending" the audio to the tascam. In terms of real time there is a "lag" introduce by the design itself.

I can certainly live with that lag, as per my observation it's always the same amount a time. And no drift, at least on a five minutes recording. But If I can reduce the lag it is even better.

Jim idea to use external clock maybe one solution but again, I have one more stage to add to the clock transport before it reach all units.

Actually I don't really need the clock to reach the M3 as it only receive notes from numerology and therefore does not need to be in sync. But if I run the M3 internal SEQ and Numerology together this synchro is really needed.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2011, 01:32 AM
TwoToneshuzz TwoToneshuzz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by secmast View Post
Let's say Numerology is having a drum pattern notes send to the M3 which is recorded by the Tascam. The right "idea" will that the center of the synchronization is Numerology as it send the clock to both.

If I use the Tascam clock (over midi cable to USB using cakewalk) it first come to Numerology, then Numerology send the very same clock to the M3 along the notes. Then the M3 is "sending" the audio to the tascam. In terms of real time there is a "lag" introduce by the design itself.

I can certainly live with that lag, as per my observation it's always the same amount a time. And no drift, at least on a five minutes recording. But If I can reduce the lag it is even better.

Jim idea to use external clock maybe one solution but again, I have one more stage to add to the clock transport before it reach all units.

Actually I don't really need the clock to reach the M3 as it only receive notes from numerology and therefore does not need to be in sync. But if I run the M3 internal SEQ and Numerology together this synchro is really needed.


Generally in studio setups it seems to me the audio recorder or device should be the source for the main clock.

So Numerology should not send clock to the M3, Only the Tascam should do this in a perfect world.

Your problems happen when your are trying to have two sequencers and a harddisk recorder three tracks that have to listen to the same clock..

What I don't understand in all this is why can't you use MTC for all three systems. And just set the midi beat tempo manually to match on Numerology and the M3.

If you have tempo changes this is where it gets tricky..

I would never set myself up with a setup that from the start has 2 possible midi beat clock sources. I would rethink my workflow.. Perhaps if you want to use the M3 as your sound generator you could just send the midi directly into the M3 and the audio out from the M3 into the Tascam. The M3 should be the master clock if thats possible... Can't it send MTC to Numerology and the Tascam

The fact that you are using a hardware external sequencer with a software internal sequencer means that you introduce an extra level of complication into the set up. It's a hardware problem..

Another way to solve if is if you have a sequencer in the computer that you could dump your M3 sequences and then sync using Numerology in Rewire mode.

I'll think this through some more. But alot of sequencers have a sync to click track function that basically uses a device the chain that listens to pulses and changes it to midi beat clock...

Send a midi trigger to numrology set your Numerology sequencers in Midi trigger play modus and use that to trigger your sequences? As far this drift your talking about there may be some latency correction tools in Numerology that could help things out.

Just some thoughts..

When you run into problems like this, just know that there is going to be a solution out there that will fix this up for you..The whole thing can be very educational in the very least..

Wade

Last edited by TwoToneshuzz; 10-02-2011 at 01:38 AM.
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